SIGMA Loot System: EPGP
What is “EPGP”?
- EP stands for Effort Points
- EP is the measure of effort each member puts towards the common guild goal, and in Sigma’s case, PvE raiding (MC, Ony, BWL, AQ40, Naxx) on scheduled raid nights
- EP for being present at raid start and present at raid end: 100
- EP per boss-kill as follows: 100 MC, 200 BWL, 250 AQ40, 300 Naxx
- GP stands for Gear Points
- GP measures the amount of loot each member has obtained
- Each piece of gear from raid has a pre-set, transparent GP cost
- For those that want to #math it, the equation is as follows:
- ItemGP = 1000 x 2 ^ ((ilevel - 66)/10) x ItemScale x TierModifier
- ItemScale as follows:
- [1.00] Head, Chest, Legs
- [0.75] Shoulder, Hands, Feet, Waist
- [0.56] Wrist, Back, Neck, Finger
- [0.50] Off-hand
- [1.25] Trinket
- [1.50] One-handed weapon/shield
- [2.00] Two-handed weapon
- [0.75] TierModifier
- BWL class specific trinkets are set at a flat 250gp
- Resist-only gear is set at a flat 0gp, still awarded via PR
How does this determine who gets loot when it drops?
- Generally, the more raids a player plays, the more loot that player receives
- PR stands for Loot Priority
- The raider with the higher PR gets the first say on loot (ie: Raider 1 below)
- PR is determined by a ratio of EP to GP (PR = EP / GP)
- Raider 1 has 3000 EP and 1000 GP (3000/1000 = 3.00 PR)
- Raider 2 has 4000 EP and 2000 GP (4000/2000 = 2.00 PR)
- Raider 3 has 5000 EP and 7500 GP (5000/7500 = 0.66 PR)
- However, PR also considers how much loot a player has already received
- In the example, Raider 3 put forth more effort but has also gotten more loot
- This enables a guild to gear it’s raiders evenly and fairly
- Bid Types ( MS > OS > Rot > DE )
- MS (Main Spec) - 100% GP - gear to be used when performing your main role for the raid, where role is define as tanking, healing, or dealing damage.
- OS (Off-Spec) - 25% GP - gear to be used when performing an alternate role for the raid (IE: a dps warrior taking tank gear or a feral druid taking caster gear).
- Alts bid MS and OS gear as OS
- Rot or NR (Non-Raid) - 10% GP - gear that will not be used in the raid; if the gear taken as Rot is used in an EPGP raid, the remaining 90% GP will be attributed at that date.
What are other checks & balances in this system to keep as fair as possible?
- Base GP
- All raiders begin with a base GP value of 1000
- Base GP prevents new recruits from trumping dedicated, active members
- The GP of each member is (GP = BaseGP + LootGP)
- LP ratio considers GP not BaseGP nor LootGP alone
- Decay (on Tues 9am of each week)
- All raiders’ EP and LootGP decay 15% per week, every Tuesday
- Decay prevents inactive members from trumping dedicated, active members
- Decay weights recent contributions higher than past contributions
- Roll-off: all raiders’ EP and LootGP will only be considered within the past 13 weeks
- Any raids participated in >13 weeks ago, or any loot taken >13 weeks ago, will no longer count towards EPGP calculations
- Calculation mathematics
- Current EP = Earned EP x (1 - 15%) ^ (number of weeks old)
- Current GP = 1000 + Loot GP x (1 - 15%) ^ (number of weeks old)
FAQs - Frequently Asked Questions
Why don’t we just use DKP?
- They are the same in some ways
- Decay can be applied to DKP
- DK points are awarded for the effort the same way Effort points are
- DKP has some advantages
- Allowing the market (the raiders) to set their own prices on loot
- Maintaining one list since DKP acts as loot currency
- DKP has some disadvantages
- Loot price inflation (this can be detrimental to “fairness”)
- Uneven gearing of the raid (this can somewhat hinder progression)
- While EPGP restricts a little free-market freedom, it is the more balanced and optimal system, and the fairest way to gear a raid based on contribution
Why don’t we just /roll everything?
- Rolling is a very viable way to distribute loot and is utilized often
- It awards those currently in the raid, for that specific raid, so it is the ideal loot system for raids that have a very dynamic or changing player list
- Rolling has a few very specific drawbacks that progression guilds want to avoid
- Loot distribution can become very imbalanced and unfair
- Does not proportionately award gear to those that have contributed more
- Raiders may pass up clear upgrades for specific drops (that don’t drop)
- Raiders often roll on relative, sub-optimal gear just to get something (greed)
Why are some of the items specifically restricted?
- The raid leaders have made these restrictions based on research and conversations with other leaders, and these are not arbitrary. It takes more into consideration than simply what is “best-in-slot” for any one class, but also what the relative upgrade is for all classes that can use the item.
- Example Choker of the Fire Lord (7int, 7stam, 34 dmg/heal) is an incredible item for DPS Casters and Healers alike.
- However, for healers, Raimstein the Gorger’s Animated Chain Necklace (7stam, 6spir, 33 heals) is ALMOST as good
- DPS Casters’ next best items would have 1% hit or 1% crit, and no damage at all
- In this example, because reserving the Choker of the Fire Lord for DPS Casters makes the most sense and is “best for the raid”, we are actually restricting DPS Casters on the Choker of Enlightenment
- These lists are not set in stone, and if there is adequate reason to add restrictions or remove restrictions from the list, the raid leaders’ will definitely consider suggestions.
- These restrictions are temporary in nature and will be lifted as we progress or as the raid gears adequately
How will the EPGP raids account for alts in terms of both EP and GP?
- EP will count towards the player, and not the toon
- Gear will be distributed same as off-spec loot priority
- Off-spec and Alts will pay 25% of the GP cost for items that all Mains pass
- We want players to use LP towards Main’s gear, not Off-spec or Alts
- Off-spec is Feral-druid obtaining healing gear (Alt-priest same priority)
- Off-spec is NOT a Mage not wanting to spend full GP on T1 pieces
Why would we not discount GP for some items, or allow discounted bidding for passed items?
- We can “lower” the GP attribute for some items - and perhaps we should. This can be discussed. However, this should be done before the raid so that the cost is transparent and equal for all. (see next FAQ)
- This also keeps the spirit of the EPGP system as fair as possible; one of the primary benefits of EPGP is that items maintain a set cost that is the same over time, and the same for every player
- What we cannot do is to “discount” items that have been passed on during the raid; this sets a bad precedent - the idea that one can pass on an item to receive it for less creates bad behavior for some (not all), but some, and that’s enough to disturb the system of equitable loot/gear distribution
- A player that obtains a piece of loot/gear SHOULD wait for others to obtain something as well, before the original player gets something else - this is how the system is meant to properly work
Can the GP values for items be debated?
- Absolutely - but not arbitrarily. Check out the #math on GP calculation (see above) and suggest an edit to one of the officers - if it has merit, the officers are open to changing it.
- This will be done before the raid (not during a raid when something has been passed)
- This will apply to ALL items, past, and future if a change is made
- 2020, 02/09 - TierModifier added to the GP cost equation
- 2020, 02/13 - BWL Class trinket set at 250gp flat
Is there any other way to earn EP, like donating gold/pots/mats to the guild?
- No, raid effort, and effort points, cannot be bought except by time spent in the raid
Is the decay & roll-off necessary?
- We feel it is - it protects the more dedicated and active members and is a necessary step for the system to work properly
- It prevents point hoarding, even for dedicated and active members
- This allows newer raiders to catch up much more quickly, as historical EP decays
- It is relative and everyone is decayed / rolled equally
What happens if I switch my main?
- So long as the new class/role is needed by the raid and approved by the raid leaders, perfectly acceptable - we want each and every player to enjoy the game as best they can.
- The current EP and GP value of the player will immediately transfer over to the new toon. The GP of the new toon will not begin at 1000, as the gear was taken after all.
The TierModifier applies to which pieces exactly?
- As of right now: Tier 1 and Tier 2
- Class specific trinkets are set at a flat 250gp
- We will re-evaluate beyond Tier 2 as AQ40/Naxx GP nears and adjust accordingly
- This does not apply to Leaf/Eye, those costs are balanced based on other weapons’ GP costs
What other pieces have had GP reduced, so far?
- Resistance Gear - items where the sole usefulness comes from their Resistance attribute have been reduced to 0gp (MC: Fireguard Shoulders & Fireproof Cloak, BWL: Black Ash Robe & Emberweave Leggings)
- Ranged Stat-stick Weapons - items where the usefulness comes from the ranged slot for melee classes have been reduced by 75% (MC: Striker’s Mark & Blastershot Launcher, BWL: Heartstriker and Dragonbreath Hand Cannon)
Why can’t I choose to spend my earned EP how I would like; why can’t I set my own GP costs for items?
- Neither EP nor GP are a currency
- That would be the DKP system (not our system)
- you earn points like a currency, and spend points like a currency
- See pro/cons on the DKP FAQ
- EPGP is a measurement ratio, not currency
- EP is simply the measure of effort each player has given in the raid
- GP is simply the measure of how much ‘stuff’ a player has obtained
- The next time something drops, the person who has raided the most and obtained the least things, should be due for that drop, if they want it - it’s that simple
- EPGP ratio is simply showing everyone who’s gotten less stuff for their time spent
- Gear point assignments to pieces of gear need to remain consistent for this to work